I was 22 years old when I walked into a professional recording studio in Denver Colorado, Soundmark, and set up a 3 hour recording spot to record a demo. After we recorded I went back to pick up the mixed songs on cassette and was told by Rich Sanders that they wanted my group to record an album. It was truly a Record Deal and at the time I didn't realize how successful my music career was going. That album led to a Publishing deal and two songs from the album going on a 45-LP record. That led to radio interviews, more concerts and me becoming a BMI songwriter.
I mention that because I recently received a contract in the mail from Tate Music Group. Before Tate it was Incubator Creative Group and before them it was Hollywood Records and Top Hat Records. For example, in the days before the Internet I would receive contracts from so called, Publishing Companies and Record Companies, wanting to publish and or record one or more of my songs. I had been out of the business of music for some years and when I started sending out my demos again I started getting these contracts.
At first I was elated. My heart would pound and I was rejuvenated with the idea that someone out there like my song. It was the late 80's when I got that first contract from Hollywood Records and at first I thought it was a sincere contract. As I started reading it over and thinking about it for a few weeks I then received another contract from Top Hat Records. Back then you couldn't jump on the Internet and check things out you had to call on the phone or physically mail letters and wait. Hollywood Records said they loved my song "Where is your Heart" and said it would be a hit and that they wanted to publish it. The next page they said that it would need to be recorded and that I should send them $750.00 to help cover the expense. Then Top Hat Records sent the same letter on different letter head but their price to record the song was $550.00. The first thing to tip me off about both was I'd never sent either of them my song "Where is your Heart". Then I noticed the mailing address for both was in the same building in Hollywood, Ca.
I remembered clearly that phone call in 1980 when Mr. Bollman called me up and told me he wanted to publish two of my songs, have them pressed on a 45-LP and his is price was $00.00 for doing that. He knew that if the song caught on and the 45's sold he would make money. He wasn't interested in getting money from me as an artist or songwriter. He was interested in making money from my songs. That's how it works, or is suppose to. Here's the song from side "A" called King of Kings.
Then in around 1995 I sent a demo, not a very good one, to a company called Incubator Records. Now the name would certainly suggest they were a Record company. Again, the Internet wasn't an option as a way of checking them out so it had to be by snail mail and phone. The reason the demo wasn't very good was because at the time I didn't have very good recording equipment but mostly because they had solicited me. They got my name from some place and suggested I send them a demo with songs. I sent them a few songs I had recorded but they were NOT very good songs. Sure enough a week later I got that call telling me they loved the songs and wanted to publish them and sign me up as an artist.
The woman on the other end had no idea that seconds after she told me they loved my songs and wanted to record them and me, that I knew I was being pitched. I could tell she was reading a script but I played along. She made it clear they would be publishing my songs for free but that they needed me to pay an ARTIST DEVELOPMENT fee. Not a one time fee mind you but a monthly fee. She continued to congratulate me for making the cut but that I was still in the early stages of the audition. They were, and are today, still very good, by calling the process an audition makes it sound like it wasn't a sales pitch.
Around that time I got info back from the Library of Congress on Incubator Records copyrights and for their publishing companies. Along with info from BMI and ASCAP. At that time I could find nothing. If they were a real Record Company then they would have filed SR copyrights on albums they had released but there were none. Incubator Records has no copyrights on file. Their other label Cheshire Records has 3. Two are from 1989 and another is from 2006. My search on ASCAP for Incubator Music Publishing company led me to Natan Sakany who has 4 titles in the ASCAP database.
Incubator has an artist search on their web site where you can search for an Incubator Artist. However, it's purpose seems to be a way of gathering information for them. You, the one searching, has to know who you're searching for in their so called artist database. There is no list of artists. This tells me that when you search for an artist, any artists name, it gives Incubator information regarding artists that they can try to solicit for their now called Incubator Creative Group.
Now this takes me to Tate Music Group. My ASCAP publishing company was started in 2005 and that puts it at 5 years old and my IPI number with ASCAP is 435038965, Incubator Music Publishing's IPI number is 334109395 which means it was registered before mine and Tate Music Publishing's IPI number is 446339248 which puts it younger than mine. As far as copyrights I looked through the Library of Congress under every variation of Tate Music Group I could find and nothing came up. I'll explain why later.
I was searching the Internet a month ago and came across Tate Music Publishing. Their site has a tab "Submit" so I clicked it and it said that if I wanted to be considered as a Tate Music Group Artist I could submit an mp3 to them. So what the heck I uploaded a song and didn't hear from them. I had forgotten all about them and was working when my wife got a call from an Acquisitions Associate. They said they wanted to sign me as an artist on their label. I got home and she told me and I couldn't remember who they were. They are back east and because I was working I didn't have time to call them during their working hours. Finally I get an email telling me they want to send me a contract. By this time I've done my Internet search and things don't look to good.
Searching under "Tate Music Group" I found over 140,000 hits. As I finally found sites that gave a positive light on Tate I looked at their numbers regarding web hits and they were low. It indicates to me that the vast majority of them were started around the same time. Some artists had 1000 hits, some 800 and others below 300 on sites like Myspace.com. Overall the artists linked to Tate had sites that the rest of us "Indie-Artists" can have for free.
So UPS delivers the contract and I open it already knowing what it's going to say based on my web research. Tate Music Group will produce, market and distribute my work with their investment in resources being equivalent to $35,339.00. Wow, what a deal and all I have to do as an artist is send them a refundable Artist participation investment of $1,985.50. What's the 50 cents for? Now I like numbers so let's do some numbers. If 10 artist send them $1,985.50 that's $19,855.00, if 100 send the money that's $198,550.00 and if 1000 artists per year sent in the $1,985.50 that's $1,985,500.00 a year. Tate has over 485 CD's available for sale in their web store and makes 85% of the sale with the artist making 15%. Not to mention that when I tried playing a wide variety of artists clips they either wouldn't play at all or played so badly I didn't want to keep listening.
So here's my 2 cents regarding Tate Music Group and even Incubator Creative Group. If you have the money to pay them to do what they say they will do, and it's not going to bankrupt you or cause you to not pay bills or get behind on your house or apartment payments then go ahead. If you're just starting out and you have no clue how to get into the music business and market yourself then investing your money into companies like these may help you. Perhaps you don't want to be bothered at all with marketing and can afford to pay someone to do that for you. Maybe you don't mind paying a company that's going to take another large percentage of your album money. I discovered that the reason Tate and Incubator don't have copyrights in the Library of Congress is because they allow the songwriter/artist to take care of that. In other words the artist is responsible for everything except paying these companies to do what they say they will do.
Now, if you ask me, "If I have to file all of my own copyrights under my name, and still get my music published by someone, why don't I do it myself?" If you own the copyright why would you allow someone to take 85% of the money for your song. Why don't I start my own FREE shoutlife, myspace, facebook, and the list goes on, site myself. If I'm going to pay a record label $1,985.50 and then Lord knows how much more to record my CD why not do it myself and then get all the money minus distribution fees. I checked out Tate recording studio on the web and it's as elaborate as any home studio. What they excel at promoting is Tate Music Group.
Creative Artist Management groups, I'll call them, such as the ones I've mentioned would be just fine if they simply came out and said, "Look, for $1,985.50 will do the work of promoting you. We'll teach you how to copyright your songs, guide you in recording your own CD, place you on social networks, etc. But they don't do that. You end up paying them and then paying them more and then do most of the work. If you've got almost $2,000.00 to invest in your music then I can think of 100 other ways to do that and get the same results Tate and other will get. Pay yourself not others. Don't be lazy. Research what you have to do to get where you need to go and start doing it.
There are companies out there who were started by frustrated songwriters/artists who couldn't make a go at their music. They were burned somewhere along the way and realized they could do the same thing except by making it a little bit more legitimate by offering a service. The service they offered is perfect because in the world of the music business nothing is a sure thing. You can blame the failure of the artist, when things don't work out, on the artist's lack of commitment, talent, etc.
If you're a struggling artist remember that there are legitimate companies out there. The legitimate ones simply want to see a track record of your music, your fans, your sales. They will pay you to sign with them. There are legitimate record companies that won't pay you anything to sign but will pick up the tab for everything else, because, their small. That's okay too. They'll do that because they see that you have something to sell that will make them money. They will sign you based on your track record for example. If you are able to book yourself 10 times a month and can show you sell 100 CD's every time you perform then they'll want to talk. Why would they want you to pay them almost $2,000 when in reality that doesn't even cover 10 hours of studio time, which doesn't include producers, engineers, musicians, etc.
I have a brand new CD "I'm Not Dead Yet" that was released in April 2010. Why didn't Tate Music Group say, "We want to sign your CD "I'm Not Dead Yet" to our label. Is it because they don't think it's very good? I doubt that. In fact I'm sure they didn't even listen to it. There's no indication they went to this web site to check me out. To them I'm just another artist who is hoping for a record deal. They didn't want to sign my new CD because they want there $1,985.50 from me so they can record in their studio. Yep they'll record, for 3 days, my album. Wow, what a production that's going to be, NOT!
Well this is the longest blog I've written but I had to vent. I'm tired of so called Christians taking advantage of others in the name of Christ or the ministry. It's okay to pay for a service when trying to advance your music career. But don't pay for something you're not really getting. And just because someone in the music business wants you to pay them for their service that doesn't mean their not legitimate, it means that's what they do for a living.
Thanks, Jerry - in the process of evaluating Incubator Creative Group, which is how I found your blog. So far, it has cost only a few hours of time, but I sure appreciate your insight and the warning. 'I'm not dead yet,' either, and have logged a few miles. My recent CD project is called 'Well SEASONED,'
Oh that's good, I never made it past the application process? The application process had a fee. After that process there was a monthy fee and your fees went on and on. Shame on me? I'm not the con artist here, Incubator is!
Just wanted to shed some light on incubator for anyone who's debating on dealing with them. I received a brief email from them stating that they were basicly interested in me becoming a roster artist. After replying back, I was told their was an application process "and they make it seem like it's so incredibly important that you complete it right away otherwise they'll assume that your not interested". Thats all part of the skeem! Then after they wheel you in and making you believe that their actually interested in you as an individual "wait for it lol" here comes the bomb! They want you to pay about 300$ a month for 6 months of training. What type of crap is that! Or better yet why didn't they mention that during the application process??hmmmm. I don't really wonna bad mouth them so I'll keep it nice and sweet. I definately would not spend that kind of money for training or towards any record label who came knocking at my door. I left alot of things out for certain reasons but if any1 needs more details we can arrange a way. Good luck!
I write songs about homelessness, addiction and damnation. I write about the world’s only answer being Jesus Christ and that any other path is, simply put, the wrong one. I write about divorce, marriage and family relationships good and bad. My songs tell Biblical stories and paint images of Christ’s suffering on the cross for our sins and they tell of his Resurrection.
Jerry Corelli's Book for Songwriters
Jerry Corelli Songs - from Corelli's Music Box, BMI Catalog
Thanks, Jerry - in the process of evaluating Incubator Creative Group, which is how I found your blog. So far, it has cost only a few hours of time, but I sure appreciate your insight and the warning. 'I'm not dead yet,' either, and have logged a few miles. My recent CD project is called 'Well SEASONED,'
ReplyDeleteShame on you Mr. Corelli...you were never offered a contract by Incubator Creative Group. You didn't even make it very far in our Application Process.
ReplyDelete@ IncubatorCreativeGroup
ReplyDeleteOh that's good, I never made it past the application process? The application process had a fee. After that process there was a monthy fee and your fees went on and on. Shame on me? I'm not the con artist here, Incubator is!
Just wanted to shed some light on incubator for anyone who's debating on dealing with them. I received a brief email from them stating that they were basicly interested in me becoming a roster artist. After replying back, I was told their was an application process "and they make it seem like it's so incredibly important that you complete it right away otherwise they'll assume that your not interested". Thats all part of the skeem! Then after they wheel you in and making you believe that their actually interested in you as an individual "wait for it lol" here comes the bomb! They want you to pay about 300$ a month for 6 months of training. What type of crap is that! Or better yet why didn't they mention that during the application process??hmmmm. I don't really wonna bad mouth them so I'll keep it nice and sweet. I definately would not spend that kind of money for training or towards any record label who came knocking at my door. I left alot of things out for certain reasons but if any1 needs more details we can arrange a way. Good luck!
DeleteIt also seems ICG pressures their artists to get patrons to agree to be billed monthly to support Thor ministry
ReplyDelete